Phil and I are very concerned about StyleHive.
I received an awkwardly-worded email from Stephanie Wong yesterday afternoon soliciting myself to participate in StyleHive at a rate of $1 per post.
Hi Julie,
I’m Stephanie, the Editor from Stylehive. How are you?
We are interested in advertising on your Almost Girl blog.
Here is the deal. We’ll pay you $1 for every original bookmark you add to the Stylehive and you will also need to put our Stylehive badge on a prominent spot on your blog. The bookmarks must be original, that means no ‘quick copies’ and no ‘copy and edit’. At the end of each month we’ll total the number of original bookmarks you’ve added and send you $ via Paypal. The number of bookmarks you add is up to you!
This struck a number of worrying chords over here, and I feel that it’s necessary to voice some of the concerns we have about this program. Through Coutorture we represent 152 bloggers, several of whom are “featured people” and active contributors to StyleHive.
I understand and respect the motivation behind this program – rewarding active contributors to the site for their work. However, the way these deals are structured undermines the basis for their contributions. By paying bloggers to post anything they have the incentive to post everything. There’s no quality check and none of the self-editing or accountability that happens on their own blogs. Ultimately, we think that this will and will pollute StyleHive with halfhearted recommendations born of convenience and not the passion for products and platform that their community relies on.
More importantly, though, there is no requirement that the payment for posting be disclosed. This is a tremendous liability for both StyleHive and its bloggers. One public row about unscrupulous fashion bloggers would do enormous damage to our community and “social” online fashion sites as a whole, and we simply can’t go about this in the same manner as the magazines – taking money for editorial (justified or not) until our credibility has completely eroded.
We have emailed a select few of our bloggers who participate in the site about this program. Few had been invited, but the reactions ranged from dismissal (“I wouldn’t do something like that”) to outright hostility (“now you can’t tell who is posting or why!”).
Phil and I have strongly suggested, both over the phone and via email that StyleHive discontinue this offer until they can find a way to incorporate a mechanism for transparency, align the incentives such that they don’t undermine the value of your site, and don’t alienate the very communities they rely on and hope to enrich.
We are also recommending that they they tell us how they have, or will, address these concerns. Until we hear back from them, though, we discourage any and all of our bloggers from participating in any way with StyleHive lest they eventually by we feel will be an eventual scandal.
I am so sick of the uninvited shilling from folks like these. It takes away our integrity as credible bloggers. And seriously, it’s just polluting the blogosphere and the bloggers themselves don’t really get anything out of it. It’s not like we’re bombarded by product freebues in our mailboxes.
Honestly, I don’t see how Coutorture is that much better. You reproduce other bloggers’ content for your own (eventual) monetization, and the rub is that people can read an entire post on Coutorture without having to go to the actual blog it came from–the “read more” link doesn’t even go to the original blog, it goes to another Coutorture page. There is only a very small, tiny link at the bottom of each post linking back to the original blog. Thus Coutorture actually siphons off other blogger’s traffic. Coutorture’s relationship to its bloggers is not symbiotic, its parasitical. Without providing an incentive for readers to click on the originating blog or paying bloggers for their content, Coutorture is truly just feeding off other people’s content.
I think that your participating bloggers will eventually catch onto this–they are giving you value without really getting anything back, and pull out.
I believe you sent out a lot of cold emails to bloggers asking them to participate in Coutorture. Every time you raise alarm bells about another blogger network/program, I can’t help but think that Coutorture is just another side of the coin: people trying to siphon off money from other’s content creation without a reciprocal relationship.
I know it’s weak to post anonymously, but I don’t want to start a “war” with you or anything, I just needed to make a statement, the way you do about everyone else.
Regarding the anonymous comment above: Just to clafiry – Coutorture gives it’s bloggers momentous rewards for being part of the network. I was not solicited by a cold email. My blog traffic has easily doubled since becoming a Coutorture partner. I don’t blog for money so the Stylehive issue has nothing to do with me as I am not interested. I do find, however, that Coutorture has my back in instances like this. Advice, information and opinions are always welcome.
> the “read more� link doesn’t even go to the original blog, it goes to another
> Coutorture page
Well, yeah. The “read more” link takes you the full article on Coutorture so you can “read more” of it and see it complete with formatting and all of the images. Pointing to external sites for every posts would make for a *very* fractured and annoying experience. This is why we have the “via” link at the bottom of every post takes you the original blog.
> Thus Coutorture actually siphons off other blogger’s traffic.
Also not true. Coutorture exposes blogs to new audiences and builds loyal readership (like Camille said). The streetwear bloggers are unlikely to discover the shoe bloggers on their own, and we help make that sort of connection easier. We’ve had *bloggers* find other bloggers for heaven’s sake.
> they are giving you value without really getting anything back, and pull out.
Still not true. Apart from readership, we give our partner sites access to each other, fashion press, PR companies, advice, tech help, access to a former Vogue photographer for Fashion Week, and a host of other services not really apparent outside of the network or the industry.
> I believe you sent out a lot of cold emails to bloggers asking them to
> participate in Coutorture.
The majority of our bloggers have come to us. We have, perhaps shockingly, emailed bloggers we like to ask them to join the network. The kicker is, though, that that they saw the value and joined.
If you have any specific concerns, please email us about them. Though, honestly, we’re much more inclined to spend our time serving our bloggers than dealing with anonymous trolls.
Dear unhuh-Posting annoymously is cowardly. If you have something to say please say it outright and be responsible. Transparency is the curreny of the internet and without it you will never be taken seriously.
Coutorture offers MANY benefits to our partners that are not always apparent from the outside.
We treat our positions at Coutorture as ones of stewardship. We do our best to insure that bloggers have access to events, shows, information, and products that NONE of us could get on our own. For instance, we will have a large presence at Fashion week including photographs taken at 105 shows that ANY of our partners can use free of charge.
We offer support email lists for all of our communities and anyone who is a beauty blogger can tell you how wonderful and supportive they have been for all of us.
In addition, the giveaways add tremendous value to any blog because readers enjoy coming back to blogs that have freebies. Simple things like that make all of the difference.
Bloggers have consistently seen the value in being a member of our community. I have certainly emailed blogs that I like to come to our community. I see the value in our strength as a unified network of blogs with unique voices banded together to further our own many diverse passions and agendas.
As well, I would be keen to hear how you think we are making money as you don’t see any advertizements on Coutorture now do you?
One more note. Our model for monetization involves products, not pageviews, which is a value that easily translates back to all of our partners. Please don’t try to play economist (or web designer, fashionista, etc.) if you can’t back it up.
Just noticed this while editing today. For an illustration of my last point, check out: http://www.jewelryandbeading.com/2006/07/28/designers-advice-also-for-jewelry-makers/
First of all anonymous posting is beyond cowardly, and coutorture has done nothing but stregnthen the blogging community. I simply cannot understand how style hive could ever believe this to be a good idea. It’s ludicrous and unscrupulous. I honestly don’t think I can post on the website anymore. I’m truly disgusted.
Thanks sweetie!
You say such nice things and you aren’t even yet in the community. Which you should be as we like you very much! Let’s get that straightened out today shall we?
[...] So between trying to protect my community from scandal and actually getting involved in scandal myself I think I am done for the day. [...]
seriously, lets see what all I can say to address our anonymous friend’s points.
“You reproduce other bloggers’ content for your own (eventual) monetization, and the rub is that people can read an entire post on Coutorture without having to go to the actual blog it came from—the “read moreâ€? link doesn’t even go to the original blog, it goes to another Coutorture page.”
You know, I worried about that too, until I realized people were coming *to* my blog from Coutorture. And quite frankly, its not a “hits” contest, at least for someone like me who is not making money off blog advertising (I have no paid advertising). If people are reading my posts, then thats enough for me, because they have either had a good laugh at whatever nonsense I’ve written, or they know about a new product/designer/whatever that I’m touting. None of that needs an actual hit on my links counter.
“I think that your participating bloggers will eventually catch onto this—they are giving you value without really getting anything back, and pull out.”
Sorry babe, I’m not goin’ anywhere. Its really hard to say that the bloggers arent getting anything back when you dont know what we’re getting… because you arent one. (or at least I assume you’re not) Coutorture is proving itself an awesome resource, but I’ll let J&P fill you in on all the “value added” stuff they are doing that makes membership (beyond the blog hits) worth its while.
“I believe you sent out a lot of cold emails to bloggers asking them to participate in Coutorture.”
Actually, no, it was a very warm email, and only after I’d struck up a relationship with the Coutorture kids through a common interest (the Gen Art fashion show). Kidding aside, I cannot speak for all Coutorture bloggers, but I did not receive a “cold email” in the strict sense.
People choose to participate in something like Coutorture because they are behind the idea, not because they’d get paid. I like the idea behind Coutorture. I would read it even if I wasn’t a blogger. I like it because it is a nice sampling of real opinions, personalities, and outlooks.
I could go on, but I dont think its necessary.
Well, I can only speak for myself in this situation. As a ‘featured style hiver’ on their page, I only recently was sent an email saying my ‘hive’ was featured on their front page, and that was it. I only post cool products that I think others might like and it links back to my page. I’ve not recently received nor was ever sent an email regarding being paid to post on stylehive. I only post on stylehive because my traffic has literally tripled since posting on stylehive, bringing hopefully more readers to my blog.
As far as Coutorture, I’ve personally not seen traffic referred to my blog (via my stats) at all. And posts via my blog are only occasionally seen on Coutorture, based on what they deem newsworthy. So Coutorture readers are only getting a select view of posts, of which I’m not seeing much traffic being sent to my blog to see more. But I see Coutorture as another way to network and bring what I do to more readers via another avenue.
Do I make money off my blog? Yes, but it’s hardly anything. I make way more at my day job and prefer to keep it that way. My intent for my blog is not to get rich (I’m working on my day job to do that), but to present a way for others to ‘get to know me’ either personally or professionally and to bring an otherwise ‘insiders view’ in an approachable way to beauty enthusiasts everywhere like me.
As a designer and organizer of designer markets, I am very grateful for the work that you guys do. I thank you Julie for coming out to “tha Brooklyn ” on the hottest day of the year and meeting with me and Slope Suds, and thank you Julie and Phil and felllow bloggers for coming out again in horrendous weather to see my market. All I can say is keep doing what you are doing! You are helping lots of people.
Well I for one will say that I love being part of Coutorture. I have only been treated with respect and admiration by both Julie and Phil. I have seen many of my articles posted and I am DEFINITELY getting traffic directly from the site.
In defense of Stylehive, I don’t see it as them “polluting” the blogosphere with opportunities to shill; rather, that they made this offer to give bloggers who hive decent stuff a chance to monetize their efforts. It does take effort to hive stuff, and they are cognizant of this fact – which is why this offer was extended to some bloggers.
I’ve always hived stuff for free and get a lot of traffic ffrom Stylehive, and the opportunity to make some money for each bookmark wouldn’t compell me in the least to change my behavior by hiving tons of mediocre products – not with my name or that of Fashiontribes attached. In fact, I think most of us feel quite protective of our blogs & wouldn’t denigrate the value of what we stand for for a few extra $$. I don’t think any of us would disagree that blogging, hiving, and all the rest of it involves work-work-work, so I’m glad when opportunities arise to be compensated for my taste & time.
Dear Julie & Phil
Thank you for your comments and concerns over Stylehive’s quality and creditibility. It is unfortunate the way this miscommunication has lead to such public anxiety, so quickly. The Stylehive considers Coutorture and all of its contributing bloggers as valuable partners and would like to keep it that way.
So, in an effort to clear some of this up, here are the facts.
Firstly and most importantly, “THE STYLEHIVE DOES NOT HAVE A PAY FOR POST PROGRAM”. The biggest issue we have had since you made your post regarding this, is from other bloggers or hive members that want to get in on this “PROGRAM”. We do not have a program available to just anyone, where we pay for their posts.
One of the unfortunate facts of the blogshpere is that many new bloggers come into the community, blog for a bit, and then quit when they realize just how much “real” work it is. We realize how much work goes into quality selection of style, fashion and taste and have no problem with compensating people economically for their work. So in an effort to address this problem and support the shopping and fashion blogging community we have reached out to specific individuals we admire and wish to encourage their efforts and done deals with them on a very limited basis.
It has been our experience to date that contributions from these bloggers have not suffered in quality. I think this is due primarily to the fact that these bloggers have their own brands to worry about and they are not about to post a lot of junk just to make more. So to date, it really has worked well for them and us. This is not to say we dont keep a very close watch on this, but for now it really isnt a problem. The funny thing is we did these deals to get the badge out there, not so much for the posts, but we wanted blogs that use the badge to have a lot of rich content behind them in the hive, so people would realize the real utility and depth of the hive.
One key fact that really protects the hive’s quality and credibility, is that ultimately, the crowd decides what is cool, or best. This is not controlled by anyone and is a pure signal that emerges bottoms up. Individual contributions unconfirmed by others really don’t matter so much.
I think one point you make here is valid, there probably should be some form of visability as to who gets paid for their efforts. Since the deals we do have will come to an end and they dont go on forever this does get complex, but perhaps we will explore having a “pro” listing for some participants when they are getting paid.
I hope my comments here have helped to clear up some of the confusion. Thanks for your feedback, and I hope we can together get back on a path towards developing this emerging online shopping and fashion community we all enjoy so much.
Sincerely,
Michael Carrier
CEO
Stylehive Inc.
http://www.stylehive.com/kingbee
Initially I saw both sides of this Stylehive debate, but upon further reflection some things became a little clearer.
Second City Style has been using Stylehive for a couple of months now and like Fashiontribes, has seen quite a bit of traffic from it. Our readers expect products we ourselves would buy flashing on our posted badge. It is a reflection on us, so no amount of money would get us to post sub-par goods. That being said, the goal of Stylehive is to get members to add each others choices to their hives. Quality will not suffer unless the Hiver allows it to. For instance, I find it bogus that an online store posts every one of it’s items to their hive. Therefore, I have chosen to NEVER add one of those products to my Hive. The Hive members determine who ranks the best. I like that I have a place to post items that link back to where they may be purchased. I rarely check what others have posted, frankly because when I do, they are mostly gadgets that are not of interest to me.
Additionally, it takes time to find and then post on Stylehive and anyone who jams Stylehive with countless items must have too much free time on their hands.
Just my two cents.
Thanks!
I just found your site, and I must say that I am interested in finding out more about the sites talked about in your comments. It looks like paid posting is a huge issue, and not just for style bloggers, but for all of us. I have been struggling with it because I love to blog, but at the same time I do need to earn extra money. But at what cost? I have made paid posts, but only about things I do like… and even at that it kills me to do it because I feel like a sell out. So, where is the balance? How can bloggers make a little money for their time, and not be a slave to advertizers?
Do they still pay? I can’t find it on the website.