Sigh………………I recently got an email from fellow blogger and fan of Almost Girl Carmen Van Kerckhove who blogs at Mixed Media Watch about race issues and diversity. She sent me something she had written about a piece in the NYT (called She’s Like a Rainbow) on racism in fashion called Why Fashion Desperately Needs Some Diversity
Overall I think Carmen’s piece is rather off point and reading the several hyperbolic comments about white men raping and pillaging colored women for centuries I got a little turned off. Just one of the many reasons people stay as far away from race as possible in this country is that the dialogue turns vitriolic so quickly.
My response is as follows to Carmen is as follows:
While I am sure there are underlying themes of racism to alcohol and logo brand frustration with changing demographics and customer bases I am not sure that is the end of the discussion.
I would actually contend that much of this hesitation has to do with class and not race. Take the “chavs” for instance, the white hooligans that have very much adopted Burberry in England. Burberry’s issue with them is most likely not their race but rather their consumptive and cultural habits.
When you are a luxury brand you have a vested interest in projecting a certain type of consumption that is for lack of better words “sophisticated, “exclusive” and perhaps even somewhat elitist. Being adopted by a group of people like the chavs that drive what they almost certainly believe to be needless consumption by tasteless people not only diminishes their brand but it is decidedly not a demographic they would ever want.
Sadly, I believe in the case of fashion and high end brands issues of race and class have gotten conflated. In some sense this makes the discrimination even worse, but that is another issue.
But on the other hand, as a culture (no judgments here, whether this is from historical Puritan concern or a genuine desire for conservation) we look down on over indulgence and needless consumption whether that is in alcohol or clothing. I imagine that these luxury brands view hip hop culture like Burberry views the chavs, as one clearly one of over indulgence by a group of people that don’t necessarily understand the social signaling implied by a luxury brand. That takes away from their brand value regardless of how much more they sell because of it. They don’t want more business at a lower price point even if they make more money overall because extending your brand too far will ultimately devalue it.
However, my major problem with these types of cultures is there is an unfortunate tendency to emulate this type of consumption regardless of your means to do so. As a former Chicago South Sider nothing depressed me more than seeing young girls with iPods, expensive sneakers, and Baby Phat tooling about loitering in depressed urban neighborhoods. It is just one addiction over another and it is due in no small part to the bling culture we are fed via MTV or BET. If consuming these brands becomes a way of expressing your desire to be part of some rich and famous lifestyle projected at you on TV things will quickly get out of hand as we have seen in our debt ridden culture.
I will leave the final word to Ari with his brilliant commentary behind his Menthol 10 sneakers and on how fashion consumption impacts America’s lower classes.
These two brands [Nike and Menthols] have a lot of similarities in what they do. Sneakers are obviously not tobacco, but the interesting thing about the sneaker world that people don’t know is that the # 1 athletic shoe franchises in America all have their biggest sales spike on the first of the month when Public Assistance and Welfare come in. That is when these huge sneaker chain stores heavy up on their advertising, so basically critical money is going to footwear habits and not to feed families or children. Now that’s not the responsibility of the store or sneaker companies to tell people how to be responsible with their money, but, there aren’t any marketing dollars spent towards that type of education. Formula, Similac, milk, bread and butter, are being passed over for sneakers. We see “responsible� marketing dollars being spent on “don’t drink and Drive�, or “tobacco is wacko� but not on other critical areas of society.
A little anecdote before end. The NYT starts with a show at Luca Luca fashion show which humorously for me was the brand in which I had the most terrifyingly racist interaction with a brand anywhere. When I pulled clothing there for Palm Beach Fashion week I witnessed an African American man who happened to be a messenger come in the front door with a bag from Seventeen. An army of sales women in beige descended on him telling him in hushed tones to get out of the store and that he simply had to go in the back door. To her credit when the Public Relations woman Angeline Urie saw what was happening she immediately took control of the situation and allowed the man to stay but it was clearly apparent that they did not want me to witness this messenger sullying the Madison Avenue store. Anyway, let’s just say fashion still has some major class and race issues.
You list the same points that Carmen makes, but in a more theoretical manner. I believe this is because Carmen writes from experience.
It is tough when the beauty of non-white American women can only be analyzed and appreciated as primitive and exotic, something other worldly. I reference Kimmora Lee’s physical description. It hurts to read the beauty section of every single popular fashion magazine but Seventeen list only beauty products that can suit the skin tones of racially white women. Chain drugstores in one of the most depressed i.e. black areas of New Haven each carry three little-known makeup lines that provide cosmetics in shades appropriate for non-white women. Halle Berry, Beyonce, and Queen Latifah would not be able to find the face and color cosmetics that carry their image in these stores.
Sorry for my little rant but I went to grab a new lipstick after work yesterday and it took hours.
That’s the problem. Marketers, retailers within the many layers of fashion industry do not believe in the non-white consumer. Our interests, tastes, lifestyle, music are deemed the ‘other,’ the exotic. Non-whites are catagorized into a race and each race has a specific set of interests. For example, Black women like myself only like the hip-hop aesthetic and so that is how brands believe they attract the black female consumer. If a brand believes hip-hop is base, they ignore black women completely not thinking that like white women, we could have varied tastes. Now this is where class comes in and where I agree with you. Class is more influential in determining people’s tastes than race, but people only recognize class within their own race box. The women who read Vogue and Bazaar are of similar pedigrees, have similar interests, are not that different from each other. Why is it impossible them for these publications to reflect the consumers of their products in the advertisements, the stories, the models? They do not have to change their aesthetic, reference the cultural hertiage of any non-white person featured, just put them there. The same applies to the other visual areas of the industry. I would like to know that my money is appreciated.
[...] CVK Sorry folks, this is gonna be a long one because it’s important. If you’d like to weigh in after reading this post, I’d encourage you to post your thoughts on Almost Girl’s blog. Hopefully it’ll spark some important conversations there so we’re not just talking in our MMW bubble over here. [...]
WWD’s article “Big Plans for Burberry” published 7/7/06 reports that, “Burberry is poised to ramp up its retail presence in the U.S., boost its accessories business and leverage its brand name worldwide, Angela Ahrendts said in her debut presentation Thursday as the company’s chief executive officer.” She is also quoted as saying, “I love being the opening price point on a high-end street…”
I can’t imagine that Burberry’s “issue” with chavs is of any frustration to the company if they’re plans are to continue to grow and remain an affordable luxury. Doesn’t seem Burberry is what you describe as having “a vested interest in projecting a certain type of consumption that is “sophisticated, “exclusive” and perhaps even somewhat elitist.”
I posted a comment on mixed media’s blogsite, and I am giving my reasons for my post which I know is very valid in its context. Especially where the fashion industry is concerned. The fashion industry is a composite of race, women and class.
You can not have one without the other.
Let’s start with race.
I spoke of race in that it pervades American society on many levels. The historical mistreatment of women of color by white men has left a legacy of devaluing the beauty and humanity of WOC for centuries that continues even until this day.
To leave out the historical facts that white men have said over and over and over that black women are not to be devalued and that the beauty of black women is something to be used and degraded, and not to be considered as just as desirable as a white woman’s beauty, is wrong. And running from the truth as to why the fashion industry gives WOC , especilly black women, such short shrift, won’t help to face up to the facts that race does play a part in the fashion industry. Black women in this country are not considered beautiful, because we are not considered the epitome of beauty by the dominant white society. Since our beauty and humanity has been debased by the dominant white culture, and since the media, pop culture and the historical inhumane mistreatment of black women have worked to create a distorted image in people’s minds of what they contemplate when thinking of a black woman, many people see her as some antithesis of being just what she is—a woman, who has beauty and desirablity just like the next woman.
I spoke of the historical mistreatment of black women because it is a fact. Not vitriol. A fact. Black women have been stereotyped first by white men (who raped and used them for over 350 years) then to assuage their guilt in debauching them, they began the lies, myths and distortions that black women are Jezebels, unworthy of any man’s love, desirablity, adoration or protection. They put the white woman on a pedestal as if she was the only woman in the world who could be beautiful. They have unfortunately succeeded quite well in “brainwashing”, and there is no other term I can truly think of, but, they white men through the centuries and decades, and now with the power of the media and the printed ad, have succeeded in barainwashing many men of other races, and sadly, some men of the black race, into believing that the white woman is to be the most sought after and beautiful of all the Earth’s women.
And that is a lie. White women are not the “most, only” beautiful women in the world.
All women are.
If society would start to come around and see that beauty comes in all colors and races, so much the better. But, the media, and the fashion industry, being as they are all about portraying the images they think are best for the rest of the world, are not going to be doing much revamping and re-hauling the image they wish to project anytime soon. So it is up to all people to challenge the daily onslaught of devaluing the beauty of women of color. And if that means adding history into the discussion, so be it.
When you open up many major magazines, you are more likely to see numerous ads touting the message, blatantly or subliminally, that white women are supposed to be better than WOC, especially black women. If you do see an ad spead with a black woman, she is so “light” or mixed, you cannot tell what she is. Obvious “black-looking” black women—very dark brown to black–are missing very much from your well-known fashion mags: Glamour, Vogue, Seventeen, etc., as if black women and girls do not exists, except outside of the periphery of society, pushed all the way to margins of society as not worthy of consideration in the beauty department.
Okay, let’s discuss some on class. Black people come in many different classes. Lower-income, middle-income and upper-income. Yikes! That’s right, upper-income. And I don’ think I am wrong in saying that Ms. Black Upper-Income Lady does not want to see someone of her image in a magazine ad that sells products from companies that want Ms. Black Upper-Income Lady’s money. Makeup, clothes, facial care are things that are inportant to black women just like any other woman. Would it kill W Magazine to show some upscale Black men and women in their magazines? Middle and upper income black women use beauty and facial care products just like white women. Are they just as good enough to be pictured in the ads of magazines as white women are? These black women spend their money on these products just like their white counterparts. It could not possibly be the end of the world if some ads showing black women were put in indicating that black women are consumers with the same varied tastes as white women and other women of the world.
Would it destroy Teen Magazine or Seventeen to show more ads of young black girls in make up ads, facial care and clothing, just as profusely as they do with young white girls? Black girls have discretionary income as white girls do ( black girls do have jobs you know, after school, on weekends, besides just money from Mom and Dad), and while they may not have as much as some white girls, I am sure they would like to get their money’s worth, just like the next person out there. And I am sure they would appreciate very much to see a young black girl styling appropriate makeup for the young black girls who come in so many different skin tones and facial features. After all, black girls, just like white girls and girls of other races, are putting money into the pockets of the advertisers and the magazines. The least the mags and ad people can do is show some respect to all of their consumers and acknowledge their existence, instead of treating them like second-class citizens between the pages of their magazines.
As far as class issues go, I am not into hiphop or rap, so from the fashion industry using that take as if it is a record needle stuck in a record groove in a loop, right there they are treating me, and many black women and girls, as if hip/rap is the end all, be all of black people in this country. They are slighting my tastes, as if I have no interests in more than one thing.
Newsflash to fashion industry: don’t insult our varied tastes and interests. Okay?
We black people are not monolithic automatons who walk lock-step to one beat. We have many varied outlooks on life, not to mention different levels of tastes depending on our class background: minimal makeup blue-jeans wearers; avant-garde; eclectic; classic and conservative; alternate; and retro 1950s,- 1960s. To insult all black people as if they are all one and the same as far as class goes as well as tastes and buying power, is beyond rude; it shows callous disregard and contempt for a whole race of people.
And as to women, and the cause and effect the fashion industry can have on them.
Well, I am afraid it goes right back to race.
It will take years to free many people’s minds frm the lie that white women are the world’s most beautiful woman. Women not only come in many different races and colors, but they come in different shapes, sizes, and many have varied outlooks on life.
No two women even think the same even when they are of the same race.
To box many women out of the concept of beauty, and set your wagon on only one type of physical beauty for all women, shows a wanton disregard for the outstanding variety and array that all women come in.
Race, class and women.
They are go together in tandem. Unitl you overcome one, you can not begin to overcome them all.
I think you don’t really understand Carmen’s thoughts on race or choose to ignore them. There IS a stead stream tired racial cliches that are used to describe women of color: Latinas are “hot” or “spicy”; Asians are “China dolls” or geishas; or African-Americans are “streetwise”, “warriors,” “jungle this or that.”
How can anyone in 2006 consider a black, Native American Asian, Latina, or mixed-race woman exotic? Hello, they’ve been in America for CENTURIES!
Moreover, our entire society is obsessed with overconsumption of goods and has been for years. But, you focussed your attention on impoverished people of color purchases, as if the poor are an entire reflection of all people of color. A lot brown, red, and yellow folks are middle class, upper class, and some quite wealthy. Don’t you understand how bigoted it is to automatically jump to the iconic image of poor blacks and then point out their faults.
Carmen focused on the plight of all of women of color and their lack of representation IN the fashion media and the resulting insentivity. You skirted around this issue because you didn’t like dealing with the icky issues of race. That’s a cop out. Recently, New York’s equal opportunity agency began investigating the hiring practices of top ad agencies. The same should be done with the magazine industry.
Pretending that racism doesn’t exist is only something that a Caucasian American can do since racism doesn’t affect her/him in general. You give the example of the messenger. That’s nice of you. But you ignore the fact that the people in media who shape popular culture are happily ignorant of 40% of the U.S.
Race matters in the USA. There’s an elephant in the room; ignoring it only increase the chance of it stepping on your foot. Do you really think Michael Jackson would have carved his face and bleached his skin if it weren’t for a culture that devalued and demonized non-Caucasian features? Jackson is the posterchild for self-hatred.
Just a note to those who’ve referenced Seventeen magazine. Seventeen is much more diverse than any of the other white fashion magazines, whether they are for women and girls.
I can tell you they actively include young girls of color of ALL skin tones and that’s a mandate from the editor in chief. There is sincere consideration for girls of all colors, classes and sizes (and even sexuality, lol)
*stepping down off my Seventeen soap box*
Now the rest of the books, like Vogue, Glamour and the rest, they continue to traffic in white supremacy and don’t give a damn about meaningfully incorporating women of color beyond exoticizing us and tokenizing us. I long stopped supporting them.
You know what Julie, my response is going to be chock full of vitriol (funny how it’s ok to spew such venom towards poor Black & Latin people)! Vitriol notwithstanding, read my words very carefully.
“These types of culturesâ€? – “these typesâ€? are American culture. Your type of industry has hijacked theses type of cultures for “inspirationâ€? & corporate gain & given mad swag to members of these types of cultures. You are a self-described fashionista, you should know better. Why don’t YOU do some research on all fashion labels that have been inspired by these types of cultures.
1) Start with Pat Fields putting Carrie (necklace) & Samantha (trying to look like an 18-yr old b-girl) in gear from these types of cultures.
2) Follow up w/ EVERY single hoodie, hoop earring, bangle, velour tracksuit & pair of baggy jeans that ever sailed down the catwalk.
3) Then you can round it out with Betsey Johnson’s chola-inspired creations.
I must say, it is truly ironic (& frankly ridiculous) how a member of such a pretentious, self-absorbed, materialistic industry based entirely on conspicuous consumption – that functions solely to make a profit by criticizing one’s garments and dictating what one should wear – that has one of its core components in THIS country can wonder why any poor person would be concerned with how they look?
On education & food…..
I grew up in a virtually white upper middle class environment. My parents were/are not big SPENDERS & put their money aside to send their daughters to the colleges (private) of their choice. The other [white] families spent money on Benzes (for the kids of course) & the Vineyard. Their kids went to state schools b/c they had too. What about that type of culture.
Do you really, honestly believe that parents would say fuck Enfamil, let’s get some Air Force Ones?
Finally, I hate to do this……I believe Carrie’s $ issue came up when her apt went condo. She had all of those designer shoes, but couldn’t make the down payment. Her rich friend gave up her engagement ring so she could pay it. Now if that ain’t a handout I don’t know what is. How many people w/ adjustable rate mortgages do you think have LV bags or burberry raincoats?
Go back & read C’s comments carefully.
You can’t make vitriolic racist (& classist) comments and expect a hat in hand response.
wow, those “chavs” pictures are hysterical! I think they’re all the proof you need white people are funny. Esp. hardcore English white people.
Well, what DO well to do WOCs want their clothes and accessories to look like? I am assuming that most designers believe that they will want what well to do WWs (white women) want. Clearly this is not the case. What do WOCs want that isn’t currently provided by a primarily for WW designer?
Thank you Ann for your post it was brilliant !! Joelle I know your pain. I live in upsate New York and you can’t find makeup for women of color there, well except for MAC. It’s as if for all other makeup brand we are invisible. I don’t read fashion mag because i now tha most of them are geared towards white women, Cause everyone knows that only white women care about fasion. I’ve been call exotic and i hate it. what makes me different from other women? my color? we live in a society that is colorstruck.That is why you have colorism in community of color because being white is advertised as being beautiful, powerful and succesful
Unfortunately it is easier to purchase a piece of babyphat clothing than it is to actually get out of the ghetto! Give the girls a break. If the iPod brings them some pleasure, so be it. I don’t see it written anywhere that only middle to upper class people can have what they want. Is the money misplaced? Probably – but we all need some kind of reward at the end of the week for just making it through.
[...] Julie’s latest piece, a response to Carmen Van Kerckhove’s tirade on race and fashion advertising, has caused a minor stir over in the softer side of blogland. Briefly, Carmen lamented that ethnic heritage is an oft-commodified fixture of fashion marketing and that these base ethnic stereotypes are offensive (as well as bad business sense). [...]
[...] I was disheartened to read a post on Almost Girl who responded to a post over at Mixed Media Watch written by Carmen. Carmen’s post is about racism in the fashion business and it’s a great read that gathers and comments on a lot of different aspects/bits/news-pieces of the fashion biz as of late. When Kimora Lee-Simmons is referred to as a “Masai warrior,� I don’t know how you can sit there and tell me that that’s not fucked up. It’s also important to note that despite Carmen’s in-depth post that talks about an array of race/skin color issues in fashion that are not all one-and-the-same, Almost Girl’s over-arching umbrella response is basically this: [...]
Kimora Lee Simmons, Maasai Warrior…
Carmen Van Kerckhove of Mixed Media Watch, a blog dedicated to “tackling media representations of mixed people” recently reacted to an article she read in the New York Times magazine written by Mary Tannen, titled “She’s Like a…
Kimora Lee Simmons, Maasai Warrior…
Carmen Van Kerckhove of Mixed Media Watch, a blog dedicated to “tackling media representations of mixed people” recently reacted to an article she read in the New York Times magazine written by Mary Tannen, titled “She’s Like a…
everyone should stop complaining about what they don’t like because obviously, it’s not geared toward your demographic….
go praise the wonderful things that are geared toward your demographic. magazines are simply advertising. without advertisements, there are no magazines. without product goals, image, and demographic focus, there is no product to advertise. then there’s no more product. so live and let live. it’s called capitalism.
and if you can’t find one single thing about what interests you, then start your own magazine/blog/clothing line/whatever.
answers, solutions….go out there and do it, or just open up your eyes to what’s there. when i want something, i go find it. or, i make it myself.
with the internet, you still can’t find anything for you!? quit complaining and DO SOMETHING! FOCUS ON something else.
who cares about this racial junk? it won’t get any better until people stop making these comparisons. it’s nothing about racism…more the simple, non-harmful fact that all people like to be around other people who are like them. it’s normal, just like it’s normal that you don’t want to be around someone depressing if you’re always happy. is that emotional bias? who cares!!!!?
[...] RANT The coded ways people talk about race without appearing to talk about race is the subject of Carmen’s rant today. For more on this topic, check out Ally Work’s post with excerpts from Uprooting Racism: How White People Can Work for Racial Justice by Paul Kivel. To see the correspondence that sparked this rant, see here, here, here and here. [...]
[...] RANT The coded ways people talk about race without appearing to talk about race is the subject of Carmen’s rant today. For more on this topic, check out Ally Work’s post with excerpts from Uprooting Racism: How White People Can Work for Racial Justice by Paul Kivel. To see the correspondence that sparked this rant, see here, here, here and here. [...]
[...] This post was originally published at Racialicious! on July 12, 2006. CVK Sorry folks, this is gonna be a long one because it’s important. If you’d like to weigh in after reading this post, I’d encourage you to post your thoughts on Almost Girl’s blog. Hopefully it’ll spark some important conversations there so we’re not just talking about it here on MMW. [...]