Rachel Cohen (who I have not met nor does she appear to have a blog) recently posted a comment questioning the importance of fashion as a career choice that got me thinking.
Why shoiuld (sic) anyone support you in a your pursuit of a dream that’s basically self-indulgent? It’s not like you want to develop a cure for cancer!
I wondered, is my choice of career really so self-indulgent? I sat back and pondered the idea that some careers were somehow inherently more worthwhile than others. Are you somehow only worthy of supporting if you cure cancer, teach inner city children, or happen to be Mother Theresa? Why do we persist in this thinking. If we all did that then how would we eat, clothe ourselves, keep a roof over our heads, and generally take care of all the little things in life. I chuckled to myself because Rachel’s quote (and I am going to get myself in hot water here) reminded me of Nicky Hilton’s outburst in Vanity Fair:
“I just want to say to these writers, ‘I’m 21 years old, I run two multi-million-dollar companies, I work my ass off. Like, what were you doing that was so fucking important at that age?’ I feel very accomplished for my age.”
The responss were well let’s just say entertaining.
I would like to respond to that. When I was 21, I was busy working toward my Ph.D. in organic chemistry at the University of Minnesota. I was the first to synthesize the compound okadaic acid — shown to be the leading cause of breast cancer.
- StevenF. Sabes
Wayzata, Minnesota
Now we could all laugh that off and be like haha stupid heiress, the bimbo designs handbags, of course we shouldn’t take her seriously. But this Steve character he is curing breast cancer! Now he is worthy of respect. But I feel like that misses the point. Now I must first admit I don’t have a lot of respect for Nicky’s ventures because her clothes are poorly made and her handbags for me don’t have an aesthetic that resonates with me. But that isn’t the real reason I don’t think she is particularly accomplished. A regular 21 year old with a dream of designing handbags doesn’t have the start up money to do it, no one will loan her the money, and frankly without a college degree or serious work experience the chances of her ever designing handbags are slim. Nicky on the other hand decides she wants a clothing line and because she is a celebrity and has family money she has a business. But anyway, moving past that and getting to my point.
Why is it that some guy who is working to cure cancer is just somehow considered that much better of a human being than someone who designs handbags? Not every woman out there has breast cancer but everyone woman out there needs a decent bag to lug all of her crap to work, school, playgroup, or whatever. Now yes one guy is saving lives but who is to say that the guy designing the handbag isn’t adding immensely to the quality of hundreds of lives? And why is creating ease, pleasure, or even utility not considered worthwhile? Why do we not respect the profoundly creative professions that add to the beauty of this world? A world where no one has any disease or social strife but has no freedom, beauty, or art is the stuff of dystopian nightmares!
Now I work in a hospial doing research for a well respected doctor and medical ethicist. Why is the work I do there somehow socially more appropriate, better, or what have you, than what a fashion editor does? And considering that, why on earth would I ever give up a research career, a chance at medical school, or an academic career when it is just obviously a better use of my time than fashion. If I ave the talent to do that why would I do fashion? Apparently only because I am a silly self indulgent girl.
Now, one of my research projects is a study that is hoping to understand how medical students analyze ethically difficult decision so that we can better understand how future doctors are likely to tackle the kind of headline making cases we see on the news all the time and how we can learn to handle them better. I do work in ethics and morals, the deepest root of what makes us human and yet I don’t consider it intrinsically more worthwhile than writing fashion copy or putting together a good poto shoot. Why? Because helping people dress themselves, express themselves, learn to appreciate their own beauty adds just as much to life as curing disease. I spent the better part of my high school years seriously ill and what I took from that experience as I struggled to get to college is that we need to appreciate the things in life that make it more worthwhile. Even as I lay in bed I took joy in the beauty of my town, music, clothing that made my life more functional. I don’t know why we don’t appreciate fashion as something socially worthwhile. Is it some residual sexism from the fact that fashion is primarily the domain of women? Do we not value their work? Do we think that fashion is only populated with self indulgent women who do it for superficial reasons? Heck, I even support some of those superficial reasons! We all need clothes! What is wrong with providing the world with better clothing, helping people dress better, or bringing out better style in the world?
I do not question my decision to go to New York, I don’t wonder if I am idiot for giving up a promising academic career or the chance to do medical research. I know that need people who cares deeply about fashion, beauty, style and what it adds to our lives. We need more people who see fashion as an art and dialogue and less of the people who see it simply as a venture in class relations and one-up-manship. If I can help one person feel more comfortable in her body, help one woman find the right clothing that increases her confidence so she gets her dream job as a doctor doing cancer research, or even one silly socialite step back and see the beauty of the world around her rather than the monetary value then I think I will have done good. In Carl Sagan’s novel Contact the scientist who is privileged to go on a journey to the stars gasps when she sees the cosmos and says “They should have sent a poet.” Fashion is poetry and sometimes we need one moment of beauty to show us the truth. You never know what will inspire you and creating a world filled with inspiration is an admirable goal.
Doctors, researchers, nurses, assistants, people with cancer and those who look after them, all need clothes to wear and bags to haul their crap around in. How is anybody following a dream other than self-indulgent? Leonardo was self-indulgent. Raphael was self-indulgent. Ingres was self-indulgent, Worth was self-indulgent, anybody who indulges in following his or her dream is, ipso facto, self-indulgent. That doesn’t make it bad, useless, frivolous or wrong. I don’t remember seeing the “worthiness” box on the checklist of “Dreams Permitted To Allow Oneself.” Artists, as you pointed out, have had patrons throughout history. Heaven knows that self-indulgent scribbler Shakespeare had his. I guess those folks were allowed their little indulgences because they’re male.
I’m glad that this reflection has strengthened and clarified your commitment; I hate seeing dreams pissed on, especially by people who can’t spell.
Well we all make spelling mistakes! I make them rather frequently because Wordpress doesn’t have spell check!
What a thought provoking entry: here in my Ivy bubble, I often feel caught between the cancer curing, homeless saving do-gooders (world-saving) and the future investment bank/consulting/politics/presidential aspiring (world-running) careerists.
I feel like I am neither: I don’t want to devote my life to volunteer work, I’ll never cure cancer, nor do I particularly want to stare at Excel sheets for the next 2 years (even if it buys me a BMW).
That said, material comfort is important to me. I want to work in a field that is intellectually stimulating and pays decently (right now thats looking to be publishing or art business, but that could change tommorow)…these professions seem interesting to me (as fashion interests you), but arguably the world could do without them. Pish posh to your ditractors: fashion is a critical and fascinating part of our culture, and I bet your critic would be reluctant to tell a cellist that her dream is futile and “unworthy”.
As I (slowly) grow older and start to more deeply evaluate my core beliefs and what I want out of life, career, and family, it comes down to this: I don’t believe I can save the world. I don’t desire to run it. What I can do is my best to make a comfortable, good life for myself and those I love (and will love, and will be responsible to care for). Hopefully this can be fascilitated by a career(s) that will stimulate and challenge me intellectually —good luck.
ps apologies for spelling mistakes.
Well my bubble at the U of C is even bigger than your bubble, we don’t really believe in anything but classics and research so feel your pain.
If I were into some other art, if I wanted to sing or play my viola that would be worthy. What an interesting thought. If I were a painter is that better? Why is fashion so unworthy.
And actually I do think fashion can save the world because beauty has truth and truth will save you. So perhaps I am just another brand of the world saving types?
Testing
Well said! I’ve always wanted to study and work in the fashion industry, but my mother highly disapproved and felt it wasn’t a ‘real’ career and that I wouldn’t be able to make any money out of it. Unfortunately we live in a very materialistic society where you’re considered a success if you are an accountant/doctor/lawyer/banker and earning pots of money.
On another note, thank you for your invitation to contribute to the Black Friday posting. Unfortunately it was rather a busy week for me, so I never got round to it! So sorry! But I have really enjoyed reading all all the posts on fashion!
I think the difference is pretty simple here:
The cure to cancer is AN UNSOLVED PROBLEM
in contrast
Handbags ARE A SOLUTION TO A WELL SOLVED PROBLEM
What makes solving cancer an infinitely more worthy pursuit is that no one has done it before! Whereas hand bags have been around for, probably, a few millenia now.
If there was a cure for cancer, and this guy was working on cancer which freshened your breath, or also gave you a great tan, then yes, I would agree there is not much of a difference.
The fundamental issue here is creating versus designing- There is no cure for cancer, therefore you need to create a cure. By comparison, one now designs something like a handbag- the idea and concept are already well known, your job is primarily concerned with the aesthetics (blue? green? square?) and additional functionality (cell phone holder? zippers or snaps?)
Now if you were proposing that you wanted to invent a handbag when no such thing existed before, then all the more power to you. The handbag has been incredibly useful to billions of people over the years, and sure, it’s improved the quality of living. Hey, I’ll even bet it’s saved more than one old lady’s life on a street late at night or something.
So I think the basic thing is that if you want to consider yourself a peer to someone who is working on curing cancer, then doing something that will create such affect as many people in such a profound way. I don’t expect a choice between polka dots and stripes to save my life when I’m 70.
Julie, maybe you’re more of an idealist than I, more power to you, somebody has to save the world by SOME means.
More thought: aren’t most people’s dreams to some degree self indulgent? Besides the most sainted among us, isn’t even the cancer researcher in it for more than the fact of curing/helping others (the fame, the renown, the CHALLENGE…)?
Dave! Wow! Didn’t know you read the blog! I am assuming you are my high school Dave what with the MIT server and what have you! Glad to have your insights
If handbags are a solved problem why do I hear endless complaints from females about how they can never find a decent bag that is functional
Though I have to say my primary concern with going into fashion isn’t so much about solving new problems but with dealing the the many problems we have had for centuries that we can’t seem to shake: issues of gender, power, beauty, identity, class structure, money and a host of other associated concepts. The deeper issues that speak to who we are as human beings are often answered through art.
I can’t say I am concerned with being anyone’s peer, handbag designer or oncologist, so much as I hope to explore issues that I think are deeply significant. I am sure Dave you can appreciate the oddity of the sentiment in that I never cared for fashion or anything remotely in the area in high school but as I have grown I have developed a deep appreciation for the power and influenc of aesthetics, for good or ill, in our society.
But I can appreciate the idea of creating vs. designing but I not sure it is always so easy to differentiate the two. New design can be truly revolutionary, just because we have had architecture of thousands of years doesn’t mean that we haven’t seen new creations that aren’t more significant than just a redesign.
The number of people seeking a “cure for cancer” (as if cancer were a single disease) is inherently self-limiting so the implication that every human on earth should be working to cure cancer–or developing a non-carbon-based energy system, designing a justice system worthy of the name, solving the issue of wealth distribution–is completely unrealistic.
The decision to explore an issue like fashion, which in the West affects a lot more people than disease (although in much less profound ways) has value. The value, I would argue, is because fashion deals with issues of culture, sociology, aesthetics and economics, and there are questions in each area that a serious enquiry into fashion can help resolve.
Writing about fashion isn’t going produce a cure for squamous cell lymphoma, but it might lead to some serious discussions of race and class, which would be a very useful thing in this country.
Recent surveys indicate that the most respected professions are ones that deal with delaying death, protecting life, or learning. Other surveys indicate that the most profitable professions are ones that deal with frightening subjects, difficult-to-understand subjects, or both (nuclear power comes to mind).
Just guessing here but any person who cannot appreciate professions not on these “top 10 lists” as being valuable to society is likely unhappy with his/her lot in life and since misery loves company they choose to become trolls.
I think this issue really focuses on some of the core beliefs of western society about what constitutes personal worth. As other commentors have pointed out, there are many groups of people that narrowly define the worth of others based upon their own little universe. Working to cure cancer is indeed a worthy endeavor, but even the loftiest among us still need someone else to do their typing, run their coffeeshop, operate a cleaning service, bus their lunch table, raise and educate their children and oh yes, design and manufacture their lab coats. Nothing irritates me more than to hear people refer to someone else as a “just,” as in “just a secretary,” “just a proofreader,” “just a lab tech.” And as a final observation, almost all “worthy” endeavors, including cancer cure research, rely heavily on funding and contributions from outside sources, and that funding comes from money made in many fields, including fashion. In the big picture, society is a team effort.
I like that a team! Effort!
Have any of you ever had the experience of a really great meal with an amazing waiter that kept on top of everything? Or really great customer service? Nothing inspires me more than people who we too often put in the “just” category who are exceptional at their jobs. One reason I always enjoyed Ayn Rand as a teenager was her focus on simply being good at what you do and the value that has in life.
I happen to know I am good at picking apart social trends, I have writing talent (thoughnot always obvious on my blog), I am a tremendous researcher, and I have a gift for putting together disparate subjects and making links. I think linear thinkers are probably the cancer curers of the world, the peopel who think straight lines and come to conclusions after hitting the subject for a line while. I remember in high school my biology teacher at Ethel Walkers in Connecticut Dr. Dreyfus told me I was a lateral thinker, always making connections and drawing inferences. While I imagine you need that in cancer research as well, being a lateral thinker serves you very well in the field of social commentary, especially in an arena like fashion where insights come from the inferences, the outside source, and the unmade connection.
Scott,
So I could have stayed in a respected profession and become an academic huh? I think people respect academics just because the great bulk of America is scared of intellect and so feel a vague wow they must be smart I am staying away from that vibe. I don’t think being an academic is any harder than any other profession, it just has a lot more bitchy tedious steps.
But if I have to turn into a troll I think I would prefer a Moomintroll, delightful little Finnish trolls with soft noses. That would be lovely!
Mark: serious discussion is what I am all about and what I am good at. I am a U of C student after all and putting that to good use in writing and fashion writing seems like a great place to do it.
Julie -
People scared of intellect are the most frightening thing in the world, after closet-dwelling boogeymen, of course.
My friend Matthew once said (regarding some folks of average intellect who claimed that they voted for the Presidental candidate who was most like themselves), “I want a President that makes me feel like a dumbass!” I tend to agree. I do not want someone like me as President — I want someone better, someone smarter.
Excellent point about “just” a waiter. When a waitperson proptly, politely, and accurately serves me at a restaurant, it brings a tear to my eye. The few times a year it happens I leave a 30, 40, sometimes 50% tip. I then ask to talk to the manager and tell the manager what great service I received and that the person deserves a raise. And I hope that anything I tip above 15% is never reported to the government — the government did not provide good service (sure, an agency inspects the kitchen and another regulates working conditions, but…) and so the government should not tax gratuity.
Oh, Julie, of course you make spelling mistakes! So do I – and you can bet I triple-checked my entry before posting it! Truth: I was being somewhat snarky. I haven’t the time (yet) to post in a manner as thoughtful as many of the others here, but I did want to post my support of and for your endeavors, and to express my disapproval of those who would trample someone’s dreams under foot (n.b., I am excluding those dreams which include world domination, repressing any portion of the population, etc.; the innocuous, though, has my whole-hearted support) – and I wanted to highlight the fact that if someone is going to be snotty and superior, it would be as well to demonstrate a certain mastery of the basics.
From each according to his or her ability, and desire. You have quite a nice selection of abilities to choose amongst, but for the rest of us – well, I know the cure for cancer – any cancer – does not lie within my abilities. There are other things (such as the ability to judge what constitutes Good Fit, and to teach others the same) which do lie within my abilities. Why should it be considered wrong, or frivolous, or shallow, to do well those things for which our talents, abilities and inclinations suit us?
And I do think sexism has a great deal to do with it. Consider: in the past, “secretary” was a position open only to men of education, to serve other men of education. It wasn’t until most secretarial positions were filled by women that “secretary” stopped being a profession, and devolved into “justasecretary”: something faintly risible. I try to be very, very conscientious about thanking someone who does something well – especially someone who works in a service capacity – and, like Scott, tipping very well, where appropriate. Even where tipping isn’t appropriate, a sincere compliment usually is, and can improve someone’s day tremendously – I’ve spent most of my life being “justa,” of one sort or another, and do my best to make sure other people don’t feel as if they’re “justa.”
I will also add that in a world where you have to get permission of one sort or another to live your life that doing work you enjoy has a great deal of value.
Glad to be of sevice. I wasn’t questioning your choice of career–only your wish to be supported financially by a total stranger while pursuing it. There’s a difference, and yhou skipped that part in your rebuttal, as did most of your readers. Why is that?
I was questing the idea of it being a valued career choice worthy of being supported, either financially, emotionally, physically or otherwise as I don’t think that there is really a difference. Support is support anyway you look at it. Why are we so much more ready to pony up money for certain causes and not others? Why are there not patrons or sponsers for artists in the same way as other professions. But I was mostly interested in the idea of the social value of fashion and how that translates into support in general
Since in your comment it seemed like you felt the career choice wasn’t worthy of being supported, I took that in a general sense not just the financial once as I don’t tend to separate them out. If it is worthy of support I believe that extends to all areas
Well, then you must have skipped Econ 101. You choose your career for yourself, and depending on what skills are in demand, the marketplace responds accordingly. Not all endeavors are equally worthy of investment.
But asking to be supported by a sugar-daddy or fairy godmother requires that you provide either great artistic potential (and people do bankroll film makers and artists and designers and writers–Zora Neale Hurston was supported in early days of her career) or strong possibility of those expenses being recouped or a greater benefit to society. Writing for a fashion mag isn’t likely to recoup anyone’s investment, the artistic side is possible, but unlikely, and the benefits to society pushed by your commentors (race and class issues barriers are fortified by fashion mags, not torn down) were pretty much bogus.
So, rather than whine about how wonderful you could be if only you had so much a year–get busy. Your blog is a good start, you got national attention–don’t squander it. Hone your writing and stop pouting about how unfair it all is.
Support come in many packages. Does everything have a price tag for you?
Busy as a bee! According to you and Econ 101 everything has a price tag for you and for society.
I am interested in fashion mags precisely because if they have the power to fortify class and race barriers they have the ability to take them down. And that sounds like a great benefit to society. Hundred monkey syndrome is the way I look at it, if enough people can work towards change eventually we hit a catalyst point and we get a paradigm shift. I would like to be part of that tipping point.
But if those benefits are bogus then I guess I should give up now. But I believe imagination creates actual and supporting the imagination is the greatest investment anyone can make in the future.
If “Not all endeavors are equally worthy of investment” then I think we run into a very unique problem in that many of the great triumphs of civilization aren’t things that are conventially thought of as good investments, art for arts sake or what have you, or even great ideas that certainly couldn’t be thought of as having practical applications when they first came about. Sometimes it takes a keen eye to see how something a little out of the way might in the end have a lot of benefit, and I don’t mean in turns of simple ROI.
“then I think we run into a very unique problem in that many of the great triumphs of civilization aren’t things that are conventially thought of as good investments”
Name one. One is unique. Many is not unique.
Also, how is your career as a fashion writer going to equal the “great triumphs of civilization” so that some Scrooge McDuck should support you?
You may very well wow Anna Wintour or Kate Betts and get a job. And that’s dandy for you and I wish you all the luck in the world.
Socrates was killed by Athens even though he thought for his work he should be given free meals with the Olympians. I guess no Scroogy Athenians wanted to support the great philosopher.
Many great authors were never published in their lifetime nor saw a dollar for their work
For than one scientist was regarded as crazy before their big breakthroughs, Einstein worked as patent clerk and really when has the theory of relativity had major practical applications? For that matter most of math! My roommate’s parents are major mathematicians and their research can’t be translated into anything commercial
And I don’t want to wow Anna, I respect her and her work but that is not what I want to do. I hope to pursue a vision of fashion. Though I have no doubt that that she could teach me much about fashion and I would be honored to have a chance to work for her.
And as to the great triumphs of civilization? The philosophy of aesthetics and beauty is a valid and intriguing field of intellectual inquiry, one that tells us about who we are and what we strive to be. Think about the gardens of Babylon, the grand beauty of Louis 14th court and his fashion, even the bra burning of early feminists-all defining moments of aesthetic history. You want to tell me that chronicling that isn’t valid and worth supporting? Without historians, especially social historians, what would future generations have to teach them about the past? And for that matter without modern social commentary how would we ever come to appreciate our own times?
Thank you for wishing me luck, I wish I could discuss my own future plans more candidly on this blog but I can assure you that I am well on my way. I can only assume it is because others have seen the possible value I might contribute. I never asked them for a chance, only showed them the value I could add.
[...] Horyn’s critique of Rowland’s biography just hints subtly at a conversation we have been having here on my blog about the importance of fashion and fashion journalism or fashion editing as a career Horyn, in defending Snow’s genius, describes the work as a battlefield using Rebecca West’s famous essay. [...]
Many great authors were never published in their lifetime nor saw a dollar for their work
Name one.
Emily Dickenson
Actually, she published 7 of her 1800 poems during her lifetime. She wasn’t particularly crushed by this slim public recognition, nor was she dependent on her work for financial support. She stopped submitting her work to editors.. But you deserve some credit for even coming up with that.
Are you roommates’ parents receiving public assistance or food stamps or welfare?
Kafka
God damn it this is Julie I don’t know where this mumsy thing is coming from@
Kleist, Buchner, J.L. Austin (sort of)
Actually my roomates parents are quite rich, very well off even, and their work as zero practical application, just theoretical math
Honestly what is your point here with your arguement?
I am not sure how Dickenson’s financial situation factors here
My point is that all too often we don’t recognize value until far too late and that oftentimes value is not correlated to current economic situations. I was making that point through our lack of appreciation for many great thinkers during their lifetime.
I am not saying I am a great thinker but rather that perhaps we don’t see the value of applying critical inquiry towards fashion just yet but that in time if people like me attempt to work through it we can gain value
sorry I meant J.L Austin ooops
Seriously, RC. If you knew anyting about the world, at least past Econ 101, you’d realize that a great deal has to do with luck. Utter, unqualified uncertainty as opposed to risk (uncertainty quantified and therefore controlled.)
Plenty of otherwise great artists get forgotten for lack of luck. And those who get lucky get to be remembered. And those who get remembered at all are “known” to be great artists. For what would Eliot have been if Pound hadn’t insisted to _Poetry_ that he be published? Just another undiscovered genius. And I’m sure that plenty of non-geniuses get support, and they’ll always all be forgotten. I, for one, take myself to be an unsupported genius. And hell, I may just well be delusional. But I for one am glad that at least some dreamers, even if not my self, are supported for no good reason, so at least they can pursue the dream, (and I for one take Julie to be brilliant enough to be helped) for otherwise, whatever genius there is in the world would not show forth at all.
[...] The title is a bit tongue in cheek, of course, but I want to address something that’s been on my mind for a while. Almost Girl wrote a post defending her reasons for going into the fashion industry, questioning mainly the self-indulgence factor in our line of work. She wrote that fashion has major societal impact and importance. While I agree with many of the points she addressed, I had to stop and pull away from the discussion with a mild distaste in my mouth. [...]