A few days ago Suze Yalof Schwartz, The Executive Fashion Editor at Glamour, asked me if she could write about my internship experience at Glamour. As many people who read me regularly will remember I didn’t last long at Glamour when I discovered just how much like pledging a sorority the whole experience turned out to be. Never in all my days of interning and I had been doing it since I was 16 when I started as an intern for, I kid you not, Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh at WABC (talk about tough bosses) did I imagine that taking the initiative would be considered a BAD thing. It was a prerequisite at all my other gigs from producing award winning documentaries to writing medical ethics papers to working in corporate management consulting. But at Glamour the assistants all seemed to live in perpetual fear that the interns would outshine them and thus the assistants put the clamps down on a stable of brilliant and beautiful interns, most of whom were trust funded and graduates of Ivy League universities.
Taking the initiative was a big No-No as I learned. I asked to go on a shoot and help sort clothing since there were 6 other interns in the closet, leaving most of us sitting around doing nothing. I thought watch me go girl, this is the way to learn! When I got back I was punished quite soundly for it even though initially the assistant Daisy said I could go in the first place.
Even then I would have been happy to pay my dues except, after encountering the insane hours, I faced the cold hard reality that I literally could not AFFORD to pledge there unpaid 15 hours a day because their scheduling prevented me from getting to my second job. I figured I could not get any more poor and beleaguered (I was living in a women’s shelter/dorm) so I quit to temp and seek my fortune. Ironically the editor, Courtney Kivelas, with whom I went on the shoot, emailed me a few weeks later saying she had a stylist friend looking for an assistant for shoot but I was already well on my way to fashion week and in a month starting Coutorture.
With all that in mind I encourage all of you to read Suze’s take on assistanting (in which at least you are paid something) back in the day! Her description of working with Candy Pratts Price actually made Phil exclaim “that just proves that she is a disorganized editor if her assistant has to pick up that much slack.” Which, at the risk of pissing off a notorious ego in the business, is a sentiment I happen to agree with. Come on, do you really have to suffer for people who can’t get their ducks in a row? The answer in fashion would seem to be yes.
Please! In my day as an assistant, we worked from 8 a.m. until 11 p.m. and later or even 24 hours in a row, without complaint. It was expected that we would run around NYC in search of whatever our editor needed and if we didn’t find it, it was pretty much the end of our careers. Saying “no” was not an option and that was the best thing I could have ever learned from any job
When I read Suze’s description of prepping this window treatment for Candy I actually had to wonder, so what the hell did Candy do to make this shoot happen? Have a nice idea and make someone else actualize it?
She asked me ( one of her 4 assistants at the time) to assist her (which was a huge honor). I borrowed the motorcycles, ordered gravel to recreate the floor, hired artists to create a Mural that mimicked the Brooklyn area where the story was originally shot and oh yeah — I had to call in all the clothes and accessories from Chanel.
It is very “back in my day we returned clothes uphill, both ways, in the SNOW” except in Suze’s case it is literally true and then I wonder with four assistants and Super Suze to do their bidding do real editors EVER have to do anything in fashion except go to nice showrooms and air kiss? You guys tell me! I am not a real editor by any stretch of the imagination but I bust my ASS to make Coutorture a reality and so does my assistant but we do it as a team.
As Suze said I would just be an assistant by now if I was lucky if I had gone the traditional route. But yesterday I was on a jury for the Parson’s Senior Class thesis collection with the head of Gucci Group HR, the executive editor of Harper’s Bazaar, a curator at the Costume Institute, lead buyers from Barney’s and Saks Fifth Avenue, designer Chris Benz, and the head of PR for Issey Miyake. And everyone treated me like a legitimate equal with something to say. I admit I was terrified but honoured to have been chosen. So, as Suze said, who’s laughing now?
The trick in the shifting world of fashion is to find a niche and become an expert. Don’t settle for being beaten by the mean girls. You will never have more money, be prettier, or be more self loathing than them. You just don’t get lucky breaks anymore in this business, there are too many old money girls. Some girls get lucky like Suze who has an amazing job at Glamour and is in all truth a brilliant editor, but most of you will get eaten by the machine. So don’t let the Candy Pratts Prices of the world get you down. Yes, you might end up being a Suze but I think being a Julie might be less stress in the end.
I will leave you with this comment from a lawyer with whom I happen to be in complete agreement.
What a thankless job. I was horrified to read that you think “learning ‘no’ was not an option was the best thing you learned from a job.”I work in law, a place where you also don’t get thanked for things done right, but scolded when things go wrong (in general). However, I long ago learned the importance of SAYING NO for sanity’s sake. You’re just disposable. The truth is that in your work, anyone can do it, and if you go, there’s somebody else there to pick up the slack. Pretty much the same for me, but luckily for me, there are a thousand other law jobs. I think women should know the value of “No.” Don’t stand for that treatment…you’re just a pawn!
[...] Despite a lack of support from PR organizations or lifestyle-pr based educational curriculum, a high percentage of female PR undergraduates want a career in a lifestyle PR specialty like Fashion/Beauty or Entertainment/Celebrity. The fashion industry relies on relationships and connections, often to the point of exclusivity, which helps maintain an aura of glamour, but also make access to accurate information about the profession difficult. [...]
Good for you Julie. I read Suze article and it was like watching The Devil Wears Prada all over again. I think no one should put up with ANY kind of undignified treatment. For what? to be an assistant for the rest of your career while some snobby, lazy ass gets all the credit? I’m glad I NEVER read Glamour, altough I never needed a reason not to I just happened to find one. I’m amazed at how proud she feels about being completely humiliated and unappreciated. If my profesional success will be at the expense of my dignity and self respect, I say NO THANK YOU!
I absolutely agree with the last comment. I understand the concept and value of pushing and pushing and pushing, making it work, pulling the boss’ unrealistic needs out of your ass, and ending the day in amazement that you somehow made the impossible possible. However if there’s anything I’ve learned in the last year it is the value and self respect in knowing when to say ‘No’. And he’s right there will always be someone there to sweep in and gladly take your place when after saying ‘no’ you’re most likely booted right out the door. But there comes a point when you’d be much happier out that door than in that ‘place’. The scale eventually flips, your values change, as does your source of self worth. This was a great post.
You can tell that editor from Glamour, btw, that this Coutorture devotee stopped buying all fashion magazines entirely about six months ago and now exclusively read Coutorture.
There is great stuff here on your blog AND on the site, and I can save the money for more shoes.
I mean, I love fashion, but I also have a *brain* and need just a little more than a bunch of mags that are more ad than article all ramming the same stuff at me with absolutely no insight – or copy worth reading.
I love that you’re at the same table as the powerbrokers, but also at the same time feel you’re wayyyy to smart for that group.
I get what you guys are saying about the debate, but Glamour isn’t just fashion…they also talk about women’s health, politics, Marianne Pearl is interviewing women around the world and they push an agenda to help enjoy your healthy body (and not look like a dying model)…
There is no question, being an intern or editorial assistant for any of the top fashion mags is a THANKLESS job, that in most cases pays very little. I don’t know how anyone can do it successfully without a trust fund. You also have to have a yes-man attitude, a willingness to be brow-beaten (if necessary), and you often have to dedicate 12/18 hours a day to your job, all for the LOVE of fashion. I applaud girls like Suze who have been able to work their way up and retain their sanity…for her it was worth it! I have friends have loved their jobs as assistants to fashion editors, and I’ve had friends who have HATED their jobs as fashion assistants but did it in hopes that they could one day be an editor themselves. I can’t say I blame anyone for not being able to hack it there, especially if your are living in NYC and paying your own bills & relying on whatever it is that the mag pays you…that sounds to me like an eviction waiting to happen. Some people aren’t mapped out to be able to work for others in that type of environment where the path to the top is a long drawn out process. I know plenty of people in the fashion & corporate world alike who’s entrepreneurial spirit urged them to chart their own course, and you seem to be a perfect example of that! If you would still be an assistant at Glamour, it looks like you made the right decision leaving the magazine and starting Coutorture!!! Long live Coutorture!
(P.S. I second that of the lawyer commenter as I too work in the legal field)
Julie, i cant take this whining anymore. You didnt stick it out– c’mon- ITS NOT THAT BAD– and you are NOT an editor. you edit a lame website that no one is the real fashion world knows about… and you dont have the experience to be any authority on fashion. You dont get into shows, and all you do is complain– its very sad.
I wouldn’t say I was subject to undignified treatment it was just clear that the skill set that had served me well in other industries, radio, medical research, documentary product, corporate consulting, to name a few, weren’t going to get me anywhere in fashion.
And I admit I probably could not have remade myself in that mold very easily. But the real point is that I couldn’t afford it plain and simple. So if learning to not say no almost meant learning to not eat and not have a home then I probably wasn’t ever going to learn that lesson.
But to each his own. But when Suze asked me to link and respond I thought sure as it was a good opportunity to get some dialogue going.
And Sarah-I am not, nor have I ever claimed, to be an expert. Most of my critics seemed to be frustrated by my lack of style to which I say, well hell yeah I don’t have any style. That is why I have Girlshop (well had, but I still have Laura Eisman) But that doesn’t mean I can’t work in fashion as there are other jobs beyond stylist.
Blessedly what I do is much more business oriented than editorial. Thankfully business is not subjective and relies on numbers and added value, so I do a lot better there.
Julie,
as the only person I know that seems to have done as many internships as me, I find your “old money” comment interesting. I’m sure having studied at University of Chicago you are familiar with species sucession. Well, the “old money,” they are the pioneer community, and with a climate shift, which anyone can recognize we are experiencing, a new species will easily take its place. In other words, the world is changing. To give up would be to give up on social change, and let oppurtunity flee. “Old money” remains old, but the world is changing, and the rigid system that exists is changing. It is up to those of us who are talented to contribute to this change.
Women’s SHELTER? Please. Unless where you stayed was about 100x worse than where I stayed, the least you can do is admit to a bit of hyperbole.
The Life of An Intern…
That’s the mentality of the corporate world. However, this may be ok for some people. Perhaps they live off stress and fear (why someone would is beyond me!) What’s so wrong about simply asking to go on a photo shoot?…
I was working at Parsons yesterday. Had I known you were down there, I would have popped in! Oops.
I couldn’t agree with you more. I think anyone with the fortitude to ignore the established route and go their own way is (almost) always going to be happier. I look at what you did for magazines and I think of my personal experiences as a designer. I could have worked on a team of a rather average company for years, worked my way up and eventually been a designer for a better company. But instead I focused my skills on draping and within half the time found myself working side by side with some of the best designers alive on custom pieces for celebrities.
I’ve since switched over to the designer role and now do my own line. I believe I am just trotting behind Rick Owens and Alexandre Plokhov on this path of “technician turned designer.” (I just hope I don’t let the group down . . . they have some impressive work to live up to!)
Forging your own path so that it utilizes your strengths takes a bit of bravery that I think a lot of those interns and assistants will never have. This industry beats it out of them and then expects them to have it when they become editors or stylists. Imagine the strength and success that would be possible for those girls if they had had those talents nurtured from day one, instead of being abused for a few years and then nurtured after “paying their dues.�
Gosh, Julie, you’re such an inspiration. Every other week you hit it right on the nail head. I am in a similar situation; I have this great internship but I struggle…severely. And as I learn more about the fashion industry game and its players, I get turned off. It’s so pre-1976 for Suze to advocate to the readers of Glamour shut up, be a slave and enjoy it. Glamour mercilessly states every issue how every woman should take charge and some ovaries. It reveals the sorry state of women’s fashion mags today.
I was worried about leaving this internship, which I do enjoy, but in the end, I will make more of an impact going my own way then following others.
Working 8am – 11pm and also having to say “thanks”?? Good grief. It’s madness. “Nice” insight into women’s mags…
I don’t know, while I agree that Julie “feels” that she was not necessarily treated in a bad way and at the end of the day it was all about not being able to afford working as an intern at Glamour. Why did you take the internship in the first place? Did you not think that maybe an internship that is not paying, may not be the best thing…considering your situation?
You stayed for 4 days, I am not sure If in 4 days you suddenly realized that you could not afford to make such a move. So at the end of the day, was it just that you could not afford it or was it more.
You seem to have a strong personality, if your pride got hurt, which I think may have more so been the case, then so be it. But, I don’t think that you not being able to afford it is the bottom line, or else you would have never taken the position.
Now, I agreed with you leaving, I would have done the same thing. Not because I can’t afford it…I can’t but because I would have thought this is total Bull S. That me trying to get ahead and taking action is wrong. No matter if Anna Wintour came on this blog and explained herself the meaning of “intern etiquetteâ€? would I really give a damn. It’s Crap, it’s people take advantage bottom line. No photographer is sitting their lazy ass in a chair and sayingâ€? you know from the bottom of my heart I am going to make this interns’ life difficult to teach her a lesson to be a go getter, and to be creative in ways to figure out a problemâ€? that’s pure BS.
Hey Julie– great post and I couldn’t agree with you more. I think the media plays a big part in glamorizing being an assistant. Hey girls, doesn’t mean you’ll be happy! I guess we all have to learn the hard way.
You’re awesome for sticking up for your own. And the weather is getting warmer so post up more pics , i like it when you do that!
Excellent post. Thanks for sharing your experience and your honest opinion; you really hit the nail on the head. My best friend recently gave over one month of her life (12 hour work days, no weekends, no pay, and under objectionable circumstances) to “work for”/get exploited by a program on the respected CBC program, Fashion File. She was pegged against some nasty tv personality types that played a dirty game which, she ultimately lost because she would rather keep her integrity than suck up to nasty and selfish media types concerned only with pushing others down in order to rise. She now runs her own fashion blog (www.fashionminute.blogspot.com), and continues to be a freelance stylist, and like you, is cutting out the negative noise and just doing her own thing. Kind, considerate, and smart women like her, and you, are an inspiration for the rest of us to just say, thanks but no thanks to all the fashionista BS!
I completely agree with you. The fashion magazine industry seems like a hierarchical bitch-fest. The editors bark at the other superiors and they, in turn, rag on their assistants/ interns. No- it isn’t an “honor” to work at a magazine under an editor who pushes you around unreasonably. They have to remember that their experiences do not need to be continued. A sorority? Absolutely! That’s the only way to describe it. It reminds me of the hazing rituals in colleges. They are un-needed practices that are basically continued for not a single plausible or rational reason.
The unfortunate reality is, however, that unless the people at the top of this pyramid stop enforcing this “pay your dues” mentality, no one will really have a fun time in fashion. If it’s all a game to get to the top, what do you do once you’re there? Is it then your turn to be a bitch and load all your nitty gritty work onto the intern(s)?
I feel for you Julie. And the arguments that Suzie offers on her blog are redundant- she implies that because she was treated like a brainless pull-horse that you should, too. But what she doesn’t understand is that times change, and our generation hasn’t necessarily gotten lazier but rather more ambitious- and that isn’t a bad thing! Obviously, however, showing that ambition while you are an intern is bad news. Especially while you are working for someone who feels threatened by your abilities, potential, and drive.
KM
i love that you are contributing to the world of fashion on your own terms. it is probably the experience of some type of marginalization (e.g. NOT being a trust-fund girlie) that enabled this in the first place.
you rock!
I enjoy your blog immensely and was APPALLED by Suze’s article. Here is what I wrote in response (no surprise if my comment will be deleted):
“Wow, what a truly mean-spirited, nasty article. You sound like an older, meaner sorority sister intent on hazing a freshman — NOT like a professional. It’s truly embarrassing and appalling that one professional in an industry as serious as journalism (though granted, fashion journalism is often a different beast)can speak that way of another colleague… even an intern. Working long and hard hours are part of any job. Being mistreated is not… and it really speaks poorly of your organization and your own personal character (talking to you, Suze).”
This is a very interesting topic worth considering and discussing further. I want to first commend you on starting your own business. I myself have had many wonderful internships and I attend fashion week, but I don’t allow people to speak to me like so and treat me in such a manner. Many people in fashion are insecure already so perhaps they felt threatened by your presence knowing you come from a good school and knowing about your past experiences. I’ve been reading other things on your site and I feel that people may not take you seriously because they feel since your work is online, it doesnt count, but I beg to differ. You bust your ass like the rest of them and a lot more. I respect people who are actually able to write and produce: (You, Suze Menkes, Cathy Horyn, etc) compared to some editors where you cant directly allocate what it is they exactly do! I think blogging is the wave of the future and people need to catch on, (and they are). I like the fact you’re not a slave to fashion like some people are. You remind me of myself (im from chicago too) because I try not to listen to the foolishness of others who try to put me down. Just keep in mind you are just as good as these other people and if you keep consistent, you will succeed! Great work!